YOUTUBE WGbUQgC8kFw Project 2026 - Housing with Deyanira
Guest Deyanira Nevarez Martinez Subject: Housing Housing Causal Loop Diagram
## Episode Summary: Project 2026 Podcast — Episode 3, *Housing Part 2* **Hosts:** Jerry Norris (The Fledge) and Tanya Pieslowski **Guest:** Dr. Deyanira Nevarez Martinez ("Dr. D") — Assistant Professor of Urban and Regional Planning at Michigan State University and Lansing City Council Member, Ward 2 --- ### Guest Background Dr. Nevarez Martinez grew up in San Luis, Arizona — a federally recognized *colonia* on the US-Mexico border, which is how she first became immersed in informal housing research. She did her PhD at UC Irvine, where California's visible homelessness crisis deepened her understanding that "informal housing" is a far broader category than just border settlements. She has spent the past decade researching the full spectrum of informal housing in the US, which she and colleagues have categorized into four types: informal subdivisions (colonias), informal occupation of public space (homelessness), informal occupation of private property (squatting), and informal infill (unpermitted apartments). She moved to Lansing five years ago for her MSU position and considers Michigan home. She is also a research fellow of the National Alliance to End Homelessness. Jerry opened the episode by noting that Dr. D had previously spoken at a Fledge candidate forum and stood out as one of the few candidates he'd heard discuss housing in a genuinely systemic, evidence-based way — which motivated the invitation. --- ### Key Topics Covered **The ALICE Threshold and Lansing's Housing Context** The episode opens with the show's standard framing: 50% of Lansing households live below the United Way's ALICE threshold — unable to meet basic needs. Housing is central to that crisis. **What Is "Informal Housing"?** Dr. D walked through the full taxonomy of informal housing, connecting the colonias of the US-Mexico border (including the community she grew up in) to more familiar forms like homelessness, vehicle-dwelling, couch-surfing, and doubled-up households. The point: these are all structurally related, not isolated phenomena. **Housing First vs. Treatment First** A major thread of the conversation. Dr. D explained that she recently published a piece in *The Conversation* on the federal government's shift away from Housing First toward a "Treatment First" approach. Her position, backed by decades of research, is that Housing First — putting people into permanent housing first and then connecting services — is what the evidence consistently shows works. "Treatment First" models make housing contingent on sobriety or participation in programs, which fails people with disabilities and complex needs. She noted the painful irony of watching policymakers who've never done the research override those who have. **The NOVA Lansing Housing Initiative (Mod Pods)** A significant portion of the conversation focused on the NOVA project. For context: NOVA Lansing Housing Initiative is the name the city has given to a plan to put up 50 modular pods — "Mod Pods" — to help people experiencing homelessness transition to stable housing. Each resident has access to a private heated and cooled unit and wraparound support services on-site. Mayor Schor ultimately approved the Ingham County Human Services Building at 5303 S Cedar St. as the location, following a unanimous recommendation from two city advisory boards. The 50 pods were purchased for $645,000, with the transitional village projected to cost roughly $750,000 per year to operate. Dr. D had nuanced, honest things to say: she was not on council when it was approved, she has conflicts about it philosophically, but she's committed to making it work. Using her researcher's eye, she calculated that the $600,000+ cost could have paid a full year of market-rate rent for every unhoused person in Lansing instead of housing them in what she called "ten-by-ten sheds." Her deeper concern: transitional housing is meant to be temporary, lasting six to 24 months — but if there's nowhere for people to transition *to*, the model breaks down. The site is in Ward 2 — her ward — and she described going door-to-door with constituents near the site ahead of community meetings, which she expected to be contentious. Surprisingly, the vitriol she'd seen in other cities was largely absent, which she took as a sign that people are increasingly recognizing that housing instability could happen to any of them. **The True Pathways into Homelessness** Dr. D unpacked several structural pipelines into homelessness that rarely surface in mainstream conversation: - *Foster care aging out:* A significant share of unhoused people became homeless after aging out of the foster system. A particularly cruel policy contradiction: youth aging out can receive housing assistance, but if they try to move back in with their parent, they become ineligible — and the assistance can't be used for renting a room in a house, only a standalone apartment. - *Substance use as survival:* She gave a visceral, humanizing example of women in precarious housing situations who use methamphetamine not as recreational choice but as a survival strategy — staying awake for three days to avoid assault on nights they can't access a couch. "That's how you end up with a meth addiction. It's shit that happens to people." - *The poverty punishment cycle:* We take children from poor mothers and pay strangers to house them, rather than supporting the mother. Guaranteed income to that mother could have prevented the downstream costs — foster care, homelessness, incarceration. **It's Never Been About Money** One of the episode's most charged exchanges: Dr. D pointed out that the military spending in just the first 17 days of a current US engagement would — based on National Alliance to End Homelessness estimates — have been enough to end homelessness in America. The question "where will we get the money?" is only ever asked when the spending is to help people. "It's not that resources are running out. It's that we don't believe poor people deserve these things." **Fees, Fines, and the Cost of Being Poor** Dr. D used a discussion from that morning's Ways and Means Committee meeting — about increasing parking meter fines — as a case study in how fees structurally penalize poverty. She told her own story of being trapped in a college parking garage after a transaction overdrew her account during a financial aid meeting, crying with no one to call, saved by a stranger's $20. The story landed the systemic point with personal force: what looks like a "small" fee or penalty is always larger in proportion for those who have the least. **Project 2025 and Housing Policy** The conversation touched on Project 2025 — specifically Chapter 15, written by Ben Carson, which Dr. D described as explicitly calling for the elimination of fair housing. She expressed frustration that the document was publicly available and yet not taken seriously enough before the damage was done. **Her Approach as a Council Member** Dr. D said she's decided to govern as a "one-termer" — meaning she doesn't let reelection calculations shape her decisions. Even if she loses her seat, she can continue to show up with research, write op-eds, and serve on national advisory bodies. The episode closes with Jerry and Tanya asking her to return, and she agrees enthusiastically. --- ### Calls to Action - **Join the NOVA working groups:** Five committees are forming around the project. People with lived experience of homelessness or who know people with that experience are especially needed. Contact the City of Lansing's HRCS (Human Relations and Community Services) — email Daphne, who coordinates the program. - **Ward 2 constituent meeting:** Dr. D announced an upcoming meeting (March 26, 6–8 PM, new election center on Jolly) where HRCS staff will be present; also on the agenda is Ward 2's lack of a community center, with Parks & Rec potentially attending. - **Human connection:** Jerry's closing message — take the risk of being kind to someone on a corner, look them in the eye, recognize their humanity. "We're one, two, maybe three paychecks away from any one of us being in this position." - Dr. D's closing: be willing to be uncomfortable. Ask people their story. Listen. --- ### Notes - This is Episode 3. It builds directly on the previous episode with **Shantel**, who spoke from lived experience of homelessness while also working with unhoused people — this episode provides the research and policy layer. - The NOVA project is the formal name for the Mod Pods initiative. Using both terms in the wiki page will help readers connect the conversation to local news coverage. - Dr. D explicitly said she'd return — worth noting she is a recurring resource for the show.
**Links for March 20, 2026 March 20 Podcast** HRCS If you want to learn more about and get involved with the Nova Project (ModPods) Workgoups: https://mi-lansing.form.transform.civicplus.com/58988 If you want to leave a comment the Nova Project (ModPods): https://mi-lansing.form.transform.civicplus.com/58951 Our Guest http://dnmartinez.com/